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| You are in Library / class c / Milestones to reclassification "Dangerous Drugs" - House of Commons debates reclassification 29/10/0329th October 2003 The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Caroline Flint): I beg to move, That the draft Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 (Modification) (No. 2) Order 2003, which was laid before this House on 11th September, be approved. [Relevant documents: The Third Report from the Home Affairs Committee, Session 2001–02, on The Government's Drugs Policy: Is it Working?, HC 318-I, and the Government response thereto, Cm 5573, together with the Home Office Departmental Report 2003, Cm 5908, and the Sixth Report from the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, Session 2002–03, on The Illegal Drugs Trade and Drug Culture in Northern Ireland: Interim Report on Cannabis, HC 353, and the Government response thereto, Sixth Special Report from the Committee, HC 935.] The order will reclassify cannabis as a class C drug on 29 January 2004. The use of illegal drugs and class A drugs in particular is one of the greatest scourges of our times. Drug misuse impacts on the well-being of individuals and families, as well as striking at the very fabric of our communities. Most hon. Members see too many cases in their constituencies where drugs have destroyed lives and fed the cycle of crime, violence and decay. Having been in this job for some months now, I can say that drugs and the crime connected to them are most prevalent in some of the poorest and most disadvantaged communities in the country. When some 250,000 people are hooked on heroin or crack, a group responsible for 60 per cent. of acquisitive crime; where many street robberies are driven by the urge for money for the next fix; where the presence of one addict can create a neighbourhood crime spree that leaves dozens of victims and consumes many hours of police time, this Labour Government are absolutely right to focus on the most dangerous drugs, to intervene most vigorously in the most damaged communities, to seek to break the link between addiction and the crime that feeds it and to reduce the harm that drugs cause by addressing the chaotic lifestyle of those users who are harming themselves and others.
Caroline Flint: I am afraid to tell the hon. Gentleman that the scientific evidence does not fit his analysis. The evidence of our forensic science unit is that the cannabis that it has sampled is not stronger than it was some years ago. Many of the statements made about the strength of cannabis do not fit the facts in respect of the largest supplies of cannabis that come into this country.
I reaffirm to the House what I said in parliamentary questions earlier this week, which is that the measure is not about legalisation, but about having a mature discussion on the relative harms of drugs.
Caroline Flint: I can tell my hon. Friend that the whole point of having three categories of classification is to assess scientifically the relative harms of different sorts of drugs. That was why we examined the various effects of cannabis in comparison with stimulants and then with class A drugs. I believe that that represents a credible way forward.
As I said, young people are our highest priority. Direct expenditure on tackling drugs has risen to more than £1 billion this financial year and will rise to nearly £1.5 billion from April 2005—an increase of 44 per cent. Much of that money will go towards prevention, education and working with young people to dissuade them from taking drugs, as well as with those for whom drugs has already become a problem. We have launched the FRANK campaign, using carefully researched advertising designed to affect attitudes to illegal drugs. The message is that drugs are not cool and can ruin lives. Education policies are now in force in 96 per cent. of all secondary schools, and drug action teams have developed young people's substance misuse plans. The right strategy must use what works. We must be honest and credible and rely on science, not prejudice. Mr. James Wray (Glasgow, Baillieston): I used to run a rehabilitation centre. All those who attended it started on cannabis. Will the Minister explain whether a child who gives a cigarette to a friend will be committing a crime?
I have spoken about the underlying themes necessary for securing the right strategy. Those themes led my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary to announce to the Home Affairs Select Committee in October 2001 that he was asking the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs to consider the classification of cannabis under the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971. The fact is that cannabis use has increased steadily over the past 30 years, in spite of it being a class B drug. The treatment of all drugs as equally harmful and dangerous has lacked credibility with young people and devalued the educational message about its harmful effects, as hon. Members have noted. Individual police forces have developed disparate policies on the policing of cannabis possession, based on their own view of the relative seriousness of the offence. That has led to inconsistency and a lack of proper political accountability.
We want to get across to young people the simple message that cannabis remains illegal and that it is harmful. That is not helped by some hon. Members, who are attempting to distort the debate and to dilute that very strong message. Alongside schools, drug action teams and other bodies, we want to make sure that we make information available to young people, and that we get it to them. That involves using the media, and going to places where young people meet. We need them to listen to the credible message that we want to put across. We do not accept that a high level of cannabis use is inevitable. We want to make an impact on that usage through advertising and education, but we need an honest debate as well. We want to begin to turn young people away from becoming regular cannabis users. Ann Winterton (Congleton): Does the Minister accept that the result of this honest debate, which is fairly sophisticated, will fly over the heads of young children? Recent polls taken among older children in junior schools show that those pupils believe unequivocally that the Government are not just reclassifying cannabis, but making it legal. Sophisticated arguments do not wash when it comes to getting drug prevention measures across.
Ann Winterton: On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Will the Minister reconsider her words? I did not say that reclassification was legalisation. I was asking her a question and making a point about what young children believed, according to recent polls.
My point is that young people form their views about our drug laws according to the messages that they receive from people in positions of responsibility. Unfortunately, the view has been expressed continually—I have read it myself, and heard hon. Members repeat it—that reclassification is somehow about legalisation. We must work hard to deal with that, but young people know about drugs and they know people in their communities who take drugs. They may have rather more information than we might consider appropriate, but they are informed by their peer groups. We cannot attempt to influence young people if we do not have a credible message.
As
I said earlier, I believe and the Government believe not just that we need better
information and education, but that reclassification will provide an opportunity
to introduce a consistent and properly thought out regime for the policing of
cannabis in line with its status as a class C drug. As I also said, we have introduced
proposals in the Criminal Justice Bill to retain the power of arrest for the possession
of cannabis; but following extensive debate during the Bill's passage through
this House and another place, the Government have agreed to table an amendment
providing for the power of arrest not to apply to other class C drugs such as
tranquillisers and anabolic steroids. Under the guidance, which applies to all persons aged 18 and over, there will be a presumption against arresting a person who is found in possession of cannabis. A police officer may, however, arrest when a person is smoking in public view, when a person is locally known to have been repeatedly dealt with for possession of cannabis, when there is a locally identified policing problem or when the person in possession is in the vicinity of a school or other premises used by young people. It is important for people to read that guidance, and to see how clear and straightforward it is.
The ACPO guidance provides for people under 18 to be dealt with under the statutory warning scheme set out in the Crime and Disorder Act 1998. In most cases a formal reprimand will result for a first instance of cannabis possession. It will be administered at the police station. That is very important. We want to engage young people who are using illegal drugs such as cannabis, in order to establish whether there is any misuse problem. Over the past few months, I have been pleased to observe how, through arrest referral, the police on the front line are working with their drug action teams and referral workers to tackle issues related to arrest and charge. Expertise shared with the police and others will make it possible to establish whether a young person has an underlying problem that needs to be investigated, and whether that person needs to be referred for appropriate help. The proposed policing regime must not be misinterpreted as toleration of unrestricted public use of cannabis without consequences. It is not, as one Member suggested, a "baby step" towards legalisation. The overall regime for policing cannabis possession will ensure that action is properly taken by the police against someone who is causing a problem or who needs help, while avoiding the needless charging of large numbers of young people. It makes sense for parents as well as law enforcement. The regime will also enable the police to redeploy their resources for the tackling of more serious offences, including dealing in the class A drugs—heroin and crack cocaine—that do the most harm. Last year's Lambeth experiment provided good evidence that when police resources are deployed to key priority areas, results can be achieved. During that pilot, the number of arrests for class A dealing offences increased by some 10 per cent.
Dealing in any illegal drug remains a serious crime. I have already mentioned an increase in the maximum penalty for dealing in a class C drug from five to 14 years' imprisonment. The penalty for dealing in cannabis will remain at its current level following reclassification. There are many different views in the House on the correct response to the cannabis issue. Some Members advocate complete legalisation, arguing that it would cut the link between young users and criminal dealers. As I said earlier, the Government believe that that would inevitably lead to a massive increase in the use of cannabis and in health problems. Others believe that cannabis should remain a class B drug, arguing that it is a gateway to class A drugs, that it is smoked in higher concentrations than it was 20 or so years ago, and that it may be linked to mental illness and lung cancer. There has been a huge debate on those issues. The issue of whether cannabis is a gateway to class A drugs has been debated for many years. The Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs looked at that and concluded that no causal link had been established, since many other factors act as gateways. I said a bit about that earlier in my speech. As for the suggestion that cannabis smoked today is up to 20 times as strong as that smoked 20 years ago, I have already pointed out that that does not match the evidence that the Forensic Science Service has analysed from cannabis seizures. Research on a possible link between cannabis use and the development of mental illness, particular schizophrenia, was published in the British Medical Journal as recently as last November. The advisory council considered the issue in depth, but concluded that no clear causal links had been demonstrated. On the other hand, the council believed that cannabis use could unquestionably worsen existing schizophrenia. It will continue to monitor any research developments, but it is important to distinguish between worsening and causing mental illness. Mr. Gordon Prentice (Pendle): Will my hon. Friend give way?
As for the possible link between cannabis use and the development of lung diseases, clearly the smoking of any substance is potentially dangerous and a real health risk. However, those who seek to draw inferences from the number of premature deaths caused by tobacco smoking need to be very cautious. While the smoking of cannabis is undoubtedly harmful, it should be borne in mind that in general cannabis users smoke fewer cigarettes per day than tobacco smokers and that most give up in their thirties, thus limiting the long-term exposure that we know to be the critical factor in cigarette-induced lung cancer. Paul Flynn (Newport, West): Will my hon. Friend give way?
I am interested in the therapeutic use of cannabis. It was available to doctors—in the medicine chest—before 1973. Many people out there take it because conventional medicines do not relieve their pain. What advice will the police be given when they find someone taking therapeutic cannabis?
No approach to the drugs problem is simple or problem-free, but I hope that the strategy I have outlined will provide the best possible opportunity to introduce credibility to our drugs education, sharpen our messages about cannabis and give priority to law enforcement and treatment directed at class A drugs. The strategy has widespread support, not just from the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs and the Home Affairs Committee but from the police and all major organisations that work with drug misusers. I commend the changes proposed in the order, and hope that the House will support it.
The policy that the Minister announced today is neither of those two things. It will have a clear effect, which relates to the questions about the gateway. I am not making an argument about whether cannabis as a substance, in any of its forms, is in principle a gateway drug. I accept the Minister's point; my experience, too, is that people with addictive personalities, who are on heroin, crack or cocaine, have typically moved through a cocktail that began with tobacco and alcohol and went on through cannabis, amphetamines and many other things. I am not making the argument that cannabis as a substance is more of a gateway than any of those other drugs but, and this is the critical flaw in the Minister's logic, there can be no doubt at all that if the only legal way to obtain cannabis in England is through buying it from a person who is, ipso facto, a very serious criminal—the Minister is ensuring that anybody selling the substance is exposed to a maximum sentence of 14 years, making the crime equivalent in its severity to some of the worst crimes currently committed—the Minister is putting young people in touch with very serious criminals—[Hon. Members: "No."] She is. If the Minister makes it the case that young people believe that she is crypto-legalising the substance and that they cannot obtain it except from a serious criminal, she is taking steps that irresponsibly ensure that a larger rather than a smaller number of young people will be in touch with serious criminals.
The purpose of those serious criminals will be to drag those vulnerable young people upwards from cannabis to the hard drugs in which the money can be made—[Interruption.] Yes, it will. The hon. Lady for some part of Lambeth—[Hon. Members: "Vauxhall."] Forgive me. The hon. Member for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey)—I am her constituent so I should know—was right to point out that the evidence of the Lambeth experiment was that serious criminals moved into the area in an effort to drug people up from cannabis into hard drugs. There is no escape from that reality. John Mann: Is not the right hon. Gentleman living in the past? There has been an increase in hydroponically grown cannabis. Estimates made in Australia by Hemp Embassy, major protagonists of the legalisation of cannabis, are that 80 per cent. of cannabis is hydroponically grown, and that the vast majority of that is grown by people in their homes for their own supply. Health is the issue for the vast majority of people, rather than the buying of cannabis from so-called drug dealers.
The House's purpose should be not to deny that fact, but to argue about whether the Government's policy makes sense, and it certainly cannot make sense to let young people be led in that direction. I do not know by how much the legislation will do that, and nor does the Minister. We do not know how far the guidelines and their effects on police behaviour will lead young people to take more rather than less of that substance, but we know that that must be the direction and that much of the cannabis will be sold by serious criminals who are engaged in hard drug dealing. The tendency, therefore, will be for more rather than fewer young people to be led into hard drugs.
I do not specialise in saying such things about my political opponents, but in this case I think that the Home Secretary—who has chosen not to attend the debate for reasons that only he can tell—is seeking spurious, short-term popularity. The polling evidence shows that the Home Secretary is on to a winner and that this policy is popular. Considerable numbers of our fellow citizens believe that selling the stuff should be highly illegal and almost equal numbers believe that not too much should be done about people who are buying the stuff. The Home Secretary is in line with current public opinion, and I think it is for that reason—I can find no other explanation—that he has chosen to adopt this tactic. That is not a responsible way to conduct the government of this country. We should not have, in a country like ours, a Government who adopt a policy about a matter like this on the basis of seeking spurious short-term popularity. We should consider the fate of our young people. Tom Levitt (High Peak): We have had this debate for countless decades. There have been endless reports. Does the right hon. Gentleman accept that the Runciman committee, the Home Affairs Committee and the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs all made this recommendation? How many more committees must we have before we make a rational decision based on scientific evidence?
Mr. Gordon Prentice : The right hon. Gentleman has not read the report.
There are two rational positions—one is total legalisation and the other is a Swedish-style effort to prevent use. I prefer the latter. If I need to spell it out, that means that I believe that Sweden is right—that it has a better policy than the Netherlands—but I accept that either of those positions can be argued for rationally, and the Government's proposals are the sole middle ground which cannot be argued for rationally. Indeed, the Minister put up no rational defence of it; she was all over the place. I continue to believe that the Home Secretary does not want to make the argument because he does not have an argument. What he is seeking is short-term popularity, and that is a very bad thing.
only one Conservative Member, the hon. Member for Upminster (Angela Watkinson), who has just put her hand up, voted for it? The other Conservative Members did not. If there is no logic in what the Home Secretary is doing, why is it that not all the Conservative Members on the Committee voted with the hon. Lady for that motion? Mr. Letwin: The hon. Gentleman will obviously have to ask them, not me. I am very clear in my mind—and I think that over time the British public will be very clear—that this is not a sustainable system. There are hon. Members in the House who see this as a stepping stone on the way to full legalisation. I can understand their logic, although I think that the number of young people who will suffer on the way is intolerable. However, the Minister does not even make that argument. She has not even made the argument that this is the greatest political courage the Government can currently summon up on their way to full legalisation. I think that she has not made that argument because the Home Secretary does not believe in it—I think that he believes that this is a resting point, and a popular resting point. That is irresponsible. Several hon. Members rose—
I remind myself that in any vote in this place it is important to look at the text and the substance of the vote rather than the arguments posed, and at the heart of this debate is the question, why cannabis? Why is there this obsession with cannabis? I surmise that probably it is because it is the only illegal drug that a majority of Members have sampled in the past and therefore feel most competent to speak about. However, cannabis is not the only drug used by Members—tobacco is used far more widely, and I confidently predict that the main drug that will have been misused by Members is alcohol. The Swedish policy on drugs for young people is straightforward. It does not differentiate in any way between behaviour in respect of alcohol or of cannabis, because the health risks are increasingly evident, and are great, from both. Where the Government have failed, with a good opportunity—
The Government have failed to take the opportunity to reclassify all class B drugs, not just cannabis. There is no logic that says that amphetamines and methamphetamines should be class B rather than class A. They are the main drugs in respect of criminal behaviour and hard drugs in Australia, South Africa and New Zealand, and they are spreading across America. Therefore, they should be in class A. That codeine is a class B drug is also nonsensical. The main problem with opiates in New Zealand comes from over-the-counter codeine-based prescription drugs that people then bake and turn into morphine. The Government and their advisory council have got themselves into a bit of mess, and a presentational mess, by picking out cannabis as opposed to all the class B drugs, and instead of reclassifying and removing class B drugs. We should have three classifications of drugs. The first should be hard drugs—drugs that in themselves will seriously damage health and may kill, and the taking of which leads to criminal behaviour. For example, the taking of amphetamines and crack cocaine leads to a range of criminal behaviours, including violent crime. With heroin, because of the nature of the addiction, the result is acquisitive crime. That should be the first classification—hard drugs that lead to both ill health and crime. The second classification should be illegal drugs such as anabolic steroids. In the headlines tomorrow and in the playgrounds of Britain, the talk will be not about cannabis, but about another class C drug: anabolic steroids, and the decision made or not made by the Football Association today on the use of, or the avoidance by top sportsmen of testing for, anabolic steroids. We call those drugs class C at the moment. They should be, and can be, called soft drugs—the taking of which does not lead to criminal behaviour, but will cause a serious health problem. Cannabis is one—the new and hydroponic forms of cannabis, skunk in particular, even more so. Anabolic steroids, and things like codeine, should similarly be class C drugs. The final classification of drugs should be tobacco and, in particular, alcohol. Tobacco kills millions, and alcohol—which, in terms of drug misuse, causes greater policing problems and probably greater criminal activity than any other single drug—is, of course, misused more by Members and by the general public than any other drug. Those should be the three classifications, and the Government should get out of the muddle of having classes A, B and C by removing class B.
That is a good model and we could develop it here. It will be difficult to sell to the British people the idea that young people who are falling over in the streets because of excess alcohol consumption should be treated on an in-patient basis for five days in a secure detox centre. We are a stage away from taking the general public with us. An
improved classification of drugs that identifies alcohol as a major problem along
with other drugs is fundamental. Pete Wishart : Does the hon. Gentleman accept that we should be expanding the classification of bands of drugs? Does he share my concern that when ecstasy is a class A drug along with heroin and cocaine, that exaggerates the danger of taking ecstasy while diminishing the danger of heroin and cocaine? We must have a classification system that is credible to young people. The hon. Gentleman has forgotten that in his equation.
Will we treat young people as fools? There are 600 heroin addicts in my constituency. I have mothers whose sons have died from overdoses and constituents whose brothers have hung themselves because of heroin. I am not soft on drugs. We try to suggest to young people that these drugs are all the same and that they should say no to drugs. Say no to which drugs? We do not mean alcohol, because that is legal at 18. The problem is that drugs will create health problems, and some drugs will create far more than that. That is why in my constituency there are 600 heroin addicts whose lives have been ruined—although increasing numbers are in treatment, I am pleased to say. There were 12 deaths from overdoses last year, there are mothers who fear the deaths of their sons, and there are individuals who fear for their own health and lives and who do not see such a separation or difference in the drugs market. We need to separate the drugs market in people's eyes. That is not a weakening of drugs policy. I appeal to my colleagues who are thinking of voting against that model to look at the detail and think of the precision—rather than a weakening of drugs policy, it is a clarification and a strengthening. If we can move on from our obsession with cannabis, we can deal with the fact that treatment for those addicted to class A drugs remains wholly inadequate compared with the rest of the world, and we are only slowly getting people into effective treatment. I will not take up the time of the House. I will write to hon. Members to expand on my views and my experience of how what we are doing in Bassetlaw with a GP-led treatment procedure is beginning to work. That is the model that should be used in the rest of the country. That should be the mainstay of drugs debate in this House.
The extent of that problem has been acknowledged by the report of the European drugs monitoring centre, to which reference has already been made, which shows that this country has the biggest problem in Europe, but that we also have some of the toughest laws. Clearly, our policy is not working. That is why I say to the right hon. Member for West Dorset (Mr. Letwin) that it is important that we engage in this debate. The status quo is clearly not satisfying the public demand that we should tackle the issue and that approach is causing major difficulties on the streets. The Minister's remarks are important because she stressed that the proposed change does not represent a softening-up on drugs. That is important for two reasons. First, we have to send a strong message that if we reclassify, the gain to be had is that we will get much tougher on the harder drugs and the dealers. That strong message must come through. It must be coupled with strong education aimed at our youngsters about the harm caused by harder drugs. Secondly, we should not allow this to be seen as a green light for taking cannabis. It is important that we get that message across, too. The Liberal Democrats support that approach.
Three years ago, I spent 24 hours in a drug rehabilitation centre—not for personal reasons, but because I was interested. I went in my jeans and T-shirt and I slept the night. No one knew who I was—one of the advantages of being a Liberal Democrat is that one can go under cover. None of the 17 folk I chatted to, who had serious drugs problems, favoured the legalisation of cannabis or relaxing the law on cannabis. I had gone in there with my cosy and comfortable upbringing, thinking that that was the solution. I left with some serious doubts and I have struggled with them. However, I have looked at the evidence and I have listened to some of the arguments that have been put forward. I have come to the conclusion that this re-classification is a step in the right direction. I want to consider some of the arguments. Let us deal first with the critical argument about whether the proposal will result in a redirection of resources to dealing with hard drugs. The Minister could have told us more about that, and I would have welcomed hearing more about how the Government want to redirect police time. We did not hear enough about that. At the moment, 40,000 individuals are apprehended, which involves a lot of police time. If there is a fall in the number of those apprehended, where will the resources then be spent? In Lambeth, for example, there was a 44 per cent. increase in arrests for cocaine—good news—and a 10 per cent increase in tracking trafficking, good news. If that can be replicated across the country, the policy change will have been a good move. About 85 per cent. of residents in Lambeth supported such a change—[Interruption]—the hon. Member for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey) should let me develop this point—but there were some difficulties. Certain individuals came into the area, and there was some increased drug use. It seems to me, as a layman, that that happened probably because it was a pilot site and that there would not be a flood of such individuals going to a certain area if the proposal were rolled out nationally. Research done by Rowntree shows that it believes that the police time spent on dealing with cannabis costs about £50 million, which represents about 500 full-time police officers. I should like to hear from the Minister how the Government intend to shift those resources to get tough on harder drugs. Let
us briefly deal with whether such a change will act as green light and increase
the number of individuals using cannabis. At the moment, about half of 16-year-olds
have tried cannabis at some time, so we already have a bad situation. If that
figure was perhaps 10 or 15 per cent., there would be some interest in arguing
that the change would send a green light and there would be a flood of yet more
individuals taking cannabis. However, we seem to have a problem already, and it
is unlikely that the change will increase usage. In fact, lots of the evidence
from other countries shows that reclassification does not significantly increase
the number people who suddenly decide that they will take cannabis. Caroline Flint: I understand that there will be no winding-up speeches, so I will take a note and get in touch with the hon. Gentleman, but it is our absolute desire that such work will concentrate on class A drugs. That is why we are tackling the criminal justice interventions programme and identifying those people who commit crime who have a class A drugs problem, so that we can break that cycle. We will monitor what happens after reclassification and work with police forces and the crime reduction and disorder partnerships to ensure that we get some results on which we can report.
I have most difficulty with the gateway argument. I entirely understand the concerns that hon. Members have raised about access to dealers. I too struggle with that issue. Again, the evidence suggests, however, that about 50 per cent. of cannabis used is home grown, so the exposure to dealers is becoming limited. We need to consider two key arguments to tackle the gateway to drugs. First, we can reduce the move to the next, harder drug by using this opportunity to have a serious, mature and grown-up debate with youngsters about the harm done by those drugs, so that youngsters then fear them. We can have that debate because if we are prepared to be honest and upfront about the dangers associated with cannabis, youngsters are more likely to believe us when we talk about some of the harder drugs. Again, evidence from the Netherlands suggests that that gateway to harder drugs has just not materialised.
The Minister said in her opening remarks that there will be an amendment to change the power of arrest, so that there will be no power of arrest for some drugs currently in class C, but there will be a power of arrest for cannabis, which is now going into class C. I do not understand the logic of having different forms of arrest for the same class. Surely the point of having such a class is to say that certain drugs are similar, but the Government suddenly want to attach a different form of arrest to one of those drugs. The Government need to make up their mind: is cannabis now B2, or are they moving those other drugs into a class D? There is no logic at all in having a different form of arrest in the same classification.
Mr. Oaten: The honest answer is that I have not got a clue and I have not spoken to the Alliance party. In conclusion, we will support the Government on this issue, but we would welcome their thinking again about some of the confusing messages on arrest that they are sending out because this positive step forward has been slightly spoilt by those messages which will make progress difficult in the future. If it turns out that some of the new powers cause confusion, I hope that the Government will think again about those issues, perhaps as part of a wider review of how the changes are operating in two years.
It is quite disgraceful to put through something as important as this measure in one and a half hours. I do not blame the three Front-Bench spokesmen—the Minister gave way—but it is wrong to allow only half an hour for Back-Bench speeches. I am disappointed that the Home Secretary is not here. A very important issue is being debated, and it would have been nice if he had been here today. I have heard so much rubbish talked today about the Lambeth experiment that it would take me a very long time to deal with it all. I will not refer to that experiment other than to say that it was not a success. It was one of those schemes that was doomed to success from the beginning because the Home Office had decided that it would be successful whatever the outcome. As for the statistics, you know, Madam Deputy Speaker, what we can all say about statistics. We keep hearing about the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, and the implication is that it is made up of most eminent and respectable people—I do not disagree—and the font of all wisdom. It is important to point out, however, that it is part of the Home Office, it is not a scientific advisory panel, and many of its members have no scientific qualifications. It has about 32 members, of whom a substantial number—about 13—are committed to liberalisation of the drugs policy. It has no members from any organisations that have publicly said that they are not in favour of liberalisation. I therefore treat with a little bit of caution the assumption that everything that it says is right. [Interruption.] It has been suggested to me that I treat that assumption with a big bit of caution. Reclassification is sending out a mixed message. It sends out a signal to our young people—whatever the Minister says, and whatever she wishes—that taking cannabis is not harmful and that it is legal. We have seen already, since the Home Secretary's statement in the House, that increasing numbers of young people are taking cannabis, and when confronted by teachers, parents or police, they simply say, "But it's legal." The message that that gives to young people—especially to those whose parents are keen to urge their children not to be involved with drugs that can be harmful—is to challenge their parents on the grounds that the House of Commons and the Government say that it is okay. We are sending out a very wrong message, which is also being sent out to the hard criminals and the real drug dealers. Whatever we say about people growing cannabis in their homes not having any dealings with such people, many people in my constituency would not even have the capacity to grow it in their own homes, so the only way that they will get it is through the criminal drug dealer. Mr. David Marshall: Does my hon. Friend share my concern that this order will result in a much greater use of cannabis, which will consequently impose much greater strains on the national health service, and will also lead to people combining cannabis with alcohol and a significant increase in the number of road traffic accidents? Statistics and information are available that indicate that that is already happening. Kate Hoey: I agree with my hon. Friend. I do not have time to discuss the health risks, but anyone who has listened to those who treat youngsters at the sharp end in the health service cannot fail to see that this order sends out a message that will lead, perhaps not immediately but in the long term, to more people taking cannabis and to a huge strain on our national health service. The fact that it is being reclassified, which effectively means that people think that it is legal, means that the peer pressure among young people will be much stronger. At the moment, at least young people can say, "This is not legal," if drugs are pushed at them—at least they have that kind of excuse if they do not want to take the drug but are not feeling particularly confident. Again, this order sends out the wrong message on that. I have mentioned the link with the criminal element, which I saw in my constituency. What I want to ask the Minister is: why are we doing this now? What is the point of it? We need to look properly at the issue of classification. I agree strongly with some of the points of my hon. Friend the Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann)—we need to examine this issue carefully and on the basis of proper argument. We should not go ahead with introducing this measure glibly. I genuinely cannot understand why we are going down this line. Reclassification will move us further down the route of considering drug abuse as normal, and I am not prepared to support that today.
First,
drug use in Northern Ireland is different from in the rest of the United Kingdom.
Cannabis is by far the most widely used illegal drug, and while street prices
for most drugs are higher in Northern Ireland than in Great Britain, cannabis
prices are comparable, which suggests that there is a reasonably regular supply
to meet the level of demand. As other Members have mentioned, considerable confusion
exists about the current status of cannabis, and since the Government's announcement
to reclassify, individuals have begun to smoke cannabis openly on the streets
and in the clubs and pubs. While we welcome the fact that cannabis remains a priority for the enforcement agencies in Northern Ireland, the traders and the traffickers must still be caught before they can be punished. In making those points, the Committee in no way seeks to undermine what the Government are trying to do in focusing on class A drugs. What we are saying is that Northern Ireland is slightly different, and does not yet have a major class A drug problem, and we want to keep it that way. Northern Ireland does have a problem with serious criminality, however, and those criminals will exploit any opportunity that is given to them, such as the confusion that arises over the status of cannabis, for their profit and to the detriment of society there. I ask the Minister to reflect on those concerns. We would be grateful for a further assurance that action is being taken to ensure that the message that cannabis is still illegal, and for good reasons, remains clear, and that the greater significance of the cannabis trade within Northern Ireland is recognised by the enforcement authorities throughout the UK and abroad. There is much more that I could say, but time is short and I know that others want to contribute.
In contrast, cannabis is a saint, not a sinner. However, that does not mean that cannabis is harm free because real health concerns exist. The tar yield from marihuana is precisely the same as that from tobacco, so smoking cannabis can pose a long-term health hazard. Indeed, a report by the Royal College of Psychiatrists and the Royal College of Physicians published only a few years ago said:
compared
with the risks from tobacco.
I
think that that is pretty much the accepted view. A report by the House of Lords
Science and Technology Committee accepted that cannabis could worsen the course
of schizophrenia, although there is little real evidence that it may precipitate
the disease. There is some evidence that cannabinoids can be therapeutic, as has been mentioned, and Dr. Philip Robson's Department of Health report in 1998 made that pretty clear. The Multiple Sclerosis Society estimates that between 1 and 4 per cent. of the UK's 85,000 multiple sclerosis patients are illegally using cannabis. Trials to date have been small and the results uncertain. Dr. Iddon: This point has not been mentioned in the debate, but has my hon. Friend noticed that the order will reclassify tetrahydrocannabinol from class A—believe it or not—to class C? THC will be the principal constituent of the new medicines that will come out of the cannabis era.
There is more evidence suggesting that cannabis and cannabinoids, most notably THC or delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol, can relieve pain and be used as an anti-emetic, which is why they can be especially useful for the treatment of HIV/AIDS. Most controlled studies offer secure proof that marihuana and THC are effective appetite stimulants, which is important for people with cancer as well as those with AIDS. Indeed, cannabis appears to have no immunosuppressant effect on people with HIV, although the largest study, which involved 5,000 people, took place in 1989 and the pathology of HIV/AIDS is now known rather better. Anecdotal evidence from several of my constituents supports the use of cannabis in the treatment of epilepsy, although it is ironic that cannabis was shown to have convulsant and anticonvulsant effects on animals, which were the subjects of the only substantial trials. It is suggested that cannabinoids can lower pressure in the eye, which would be useful when treating glaucoma. I represent the constituency with the highest level of glaucoma and blindness in Wales, so that is obviously a matter of interest. However, it seems that one would have to smoke 10 cannabis cigarettes a day to achieve the constant level of intraocular pressure that would be beneficial. As other hon. Members have suggested, there are those who believe that cannabis is a gateway to other drugs. They believe that taking cannabis of itself leads ineluctably, medically and physically, to the taking of harder drugs such as cocaine, crack cocaine and heroin. Simply put, that is not logical. The link is not direct or causal, but there is a link. As Drugscope told the Home Affairs Committee: "Cannabis use puts individuals in social situations and supply transactions where they are more likely to experience people using, accepting and supplying more harmful drugs than others in the population." In
other words, people buy cannabis from dealers and dealers also sell heroin—that
is certainly true in the Rhondda. John Robertson: Will my hon. Friend give way?
Some
people suggest that the answer is to license cannabis and sell it at Boots. However,
when similar policies have been tried or police have tacitly allowed coffee shops
to exist in other countries, major dealers have hung around outside the shops
because they know that the most likely new clients are existing cannabis users.
All that leads me to three central points. First, the Minister is right that we should proceed on the basis of sound medical advice as much as possible, rather than on simple prejudice or anecdote, but that means that we still need further hard empirical medical evidence and the Department of Health should work further on that. Secondly, it is only logical that a drug that produces significant medical problems, but ones that are minor compared with the effects of cocaine and heroin, should be treated differently in the law, which is why the order might be right. Thirdly, however, we should not encourage the use of cannabis. Cannabis is not okay and although it does not kill, it does matter. 3.17 pm
The Government have got the worst of all possible words. They will simultaneously encourage more people to use the drug because people will know that there is no effective punishment for its use, but it will remain illegal and thus be available only through illegal gangs—
The House divided: Ayes 316, Noes 160. Resolved, That the draft Misuse of Drugs Act 1971 (Modification) (No. 2) Order 2003, which was laid before this House on 11th September, be approved. |
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